legal disclaimer
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: an133185@anon.penet.fi (A. J. Danzig)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 18:45:38 UTC
Subject: YAWN!!!
I just sifted thru over 1,000 posts and there was very little new or
interesting.
C'mon guys, let's try harder.
The exceptions:
1) Tilman's Barbie thing.
[Context: I had posted a parody ad "Scientologist Barbie and Ken". TH]
This was funny. (Although, since it was posted by Tilman, I found myself
thinking of Klaus Barbie)
2) Martin advocates a boycott of telco's owned by ScientologISTS.
Martin does a good job of showing himself for what he is: a bigot.
Of course, anyone who has spent any time on ARS already knows that.
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========
From: Vera Wallace <vera@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Rosa Erlich Declaration
Date: 16 Mar 1995 08:15:41 GMT
tilman@netmbx2.netmbx.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>
>
> There is a 3rd party law. When two persons are in conflict, sometimes a
> third innocent person will be the victim of that conflict.
>
> The parties are Dennis Erlich and RICO$.
> In this case, the 3rd party is HOLLY ERLICH.
>
Sorry,
Hoser, wrong again. You just don't get anything right.
She's the victim of Dennis the Menace.
She's also 14 years old. WHat sort of psycho are you?
Are you sniffing XyklenB again?
Vera
========
From: Vera Wallace <vera@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: David Talbot and Martin Hunt
Date: 11 Mar 1995 03:40:22 GMT
Tilly Hausherr (tilman@netmbx2.netmbx.de) wrote:
>Hunt is sometimes fast on the trigger, but he's a fine guy and has
>he has written TWO great FAQs.
Typical nazi!
Rush to the defense of the "fine guy" who makes death threats on a
newsgroup.
You're as nuts as he is it seems. Do you want to be a character
reference for him when the Mounties raid his marijuana farm?
Vera
========
From: Vera Wallace <vera@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Helena Kobrin
Date: 11 Mar 1995 05:14:08 GMT
tilman@netmbx2.netmbx.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>
> The Moxon school of law in Bridge City, Bulgravia.
>
>
Kill Man Hoser -
ROTFL.
You have a really acute sense of humor for a nazi.
Heard any other good ones lately?
Vera
========
From: Chris Miller <cmiller@covina.lightside.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Case Law related to Scientology
Date: 18 Mar 1995 03:17:08 GMT
tilman@netmbx2.netmbx.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>
> I think Scientology should be brought to court by every person
> declared as a "SP". A "SP declare" is not just a "disconnection"
> or an "excommunication", it is a call for criminal acts: "may be
> lied, sued, destroyed, ...". And don't tell us again that this
> has been cancelled. It hasn't. Only the name "fair game" was
> cancelled.
>
> I am waiting for THAT class action suit. It's gonna be interesting
> to see daily testimonies of victims court TV or CNN.
>
> The JW is also a cult, and it is about 75% silly as the scientology
> cult. The boss of JW had announced three times precise dates for
> the end of the world - and I am still here.
>
Hoser -
Equal opportunity bigot?
What do you think of the Moslems?
CM
========
[The actual message of Sobocinski starts with "Ya, SHOOR". The
text before is Cornelius' message. TH]
From: JQUN33A@prodigy.com (L Sobocinski)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Germany: Scientology is NOT a religion
Date: 22 Mar 1995 23:21:24 GMT
alt.religion.scientology
[1] Germany: Scientology is NOT a religion
krasel@alf.biochem.mpg.de
The BAG (Bundesarbeitsgericht) ruled today (22.03.95) that Co$ is not a
religion
but a commercial enterprise hidden behind religious behaviour. This was
just broadcasted in the radio.
Maybe I post more information about the judgement tomorrow (when I get
a newspaper :-)
--Cornelius.
--
/* Cornelius Krasel, Abt. Lohse, Genzentrum, D-82152 Martinsried, Germany */
/* email: krasel@alf.biochem.mpg.de fax: +49 89 8578 3795 */
/* "Science is the game you play with God to find out what His rules are. " */
Ya, SHOOR, and maybe you don't post heute morgen. This is RICH!! The
people that barbecued six million Jews have decided Scientology is not a
religion.
What's next, Heinz? invite all the "non-state religion" members over for
a little "SARIN-nade"? I can just see you dropping the Zyklon-B crystals
down the chute.
========
From: elsobo@aol.com (ElSOBO)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: The 'church' that takes our children
Date: 7 Apr 1995 11:35:57 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 26
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3m3m4t$but@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <796602846snz@sidaway.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: elsobo@aol.com (ElSOBO)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Hey, I LOVE this.....you anti-Scn posters are such losers. The one thing
you worship is the false idea that you can be VICTIMIZED, I mean, you sit
there at your slimy keyboards and postulate, postulate, postulate that YOU
ARE A VICTIM. You have no idea how ridiculous you appear.
America On-Line offers SUCH a better opportunity to view an entire thread,
I recommend it to anybody following this BB.
Something ODD happens whenever the entire German nation is united. All
you had to do was splice West Germany together with East Germany and
VIOLA, the barbecue is on!! Making fun of the suffering of Jews? Not
hardly.......My wife's family is (was) Ukrainian Jews. She doesn't have a
single relative left in Europe.
All you Anti-Scientology "saints" better wake up and smell the Sarin
you're spreading. If Scientology is as bad as you say, let it die a
natural death!! The fact that you feal it needs your personal assistance
toward the gas-chambers indicates your Nazi heritage. Scientology will
win, the technology works, you can't fool the people who have been helped
by it, I loof forward to (about) two decades hence when your letters are
enshrined as a monument to religious bigotry.
Ta-Ta, for now,
Larry Sobocinski
OT8
========
From: Vera Wallace <vera@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Hard Copy/Scientology
Date: 10 May 1995 16:54:08 GMT
rnewman@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Ron Newman) wrote:
>In article <3om16l$6qn@unlisys.unlisys.net>,
>Tilman Hausherr <tilman@berlin.snafu.de> wrote:
>
>>The problem, Elizabeth, is that you have chosen a religion who is
>>rotten in the core.
>
>Actually, Beth was born and raised into that religion.
I wonder if Tilman Hausherr is willing to post what religion he belongs
to up here on the net.
As he is German, he is likely to be Lutheran or Catholic. In a book
about Nazi treatment of minority religions in Germany, I read that 90 %
of the Nazi party members in Germany during the 30s and 40s were
Lutherans or Catholics? In fact I have seen a publication in German
which is entitled something like, "The SS for Jesus Christ." On the cover
of the book are members of the Protestant Church in Germany giving the
Nazi salute.
In Germany in fact, most of the citizens are born either into the
Catholic or Protestant Churches and when they start working, money is
taken out of their pay checks by the state as a "Church tax" and it
goes to the coffers of the two state religions. Although this is
very distasteful to many Germans it is kept in place through the
political control of two main Churches. The leading party of Germany,
the Christian Democrats, is permeated by the two Churches and they use
this party to maintain their financial hold over the German citizens.
This is a classic suppressive use of government completely entangling
church and state.
This German "church tax" was affirmed by Hilter and has remained in place
through a contract between the Churches and with each state in Germany.
I only say this to put Tilman's, and Ron Newman's statements into
perspective. No doubt both Churches do a lot of good in the world
although I do not agree with their political agenda in Germany.
Vera
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: The Bomb in a Paris Church of Scientology Building
From: cmiller@lightside.com (Chris Miller)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 20:14:59 -0700 (PDT)
tilman@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>Tony Sidaway <Tony@sidaway.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>In article <3si7ot$q3n@covina.lightside.com>
>> cmiller@lightside.com "Chris Miller" writes:
>>> ...I have also heard of real live bomb threats
>>> and even bombs planted on Church buildings - in fact in the mid 80's
>>> one went off in Paris and seriously wounded a staff member. But these
>>> are facts and you are not interested in this - you are only interested
>>> in your factless, baseless slander on the Church - which encourages
>>> REAL nut cases to do such things as you are talking about.
>> Chris, I'd really like to hear more about this. Give the date
>> and the name of the Org. This was a bomb planted in a church of
>> scientology building in Paris, which went off and seriously
>> injured a staff member, right? I'd like to hear more about
>> this.
>I guess it was a "tax bomb".
Regarding the previous question, see my previous response. Regarding
the gratuitous comment of Tilman "Nazi" Hauser - you're sick.
Chris
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Bomb in a Paris Church of Scientology Building
From: cmiller@lightside.com (Chris Miller)
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 1995 15:03:31 -0700 (PDT)
tilman@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>marin@ccr.jussieu.fr (Emmanuel MARIN) evaluates a post by Chris Miller:
>(About Chris Miller's allegation about the bombs in Paris)
>>True. [Although I've got no source to confirm the hour]
>>False.
>>True.
>>False.
>>True.
>>..True
>>..False !
>>Blatant lie.
>>Very likely.
>Ohhhhh.... Isn't this sad ? With a keystroke, someone makes a crosspost
>to soc.culture.french, and with another keystroke, Chris Miller gets
>caught again. His / Her "data" went thru so many hands, that a fact went
>into a fiction.
>Scientology critics condemn violence - so you didn't even need to
>distort your story !
>Thanks a lot for debunking this distortion.
>Tilman
This exactly proves your level of believability and intellectual
accumen, and shows the source of your "facts". One person says
"true", "false", and you believe it. Doesn't take much, does it
Master Goering?
Chris
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: icecube@netcom.com (Bob Wallert)
Subject: Re: FACTNet: "IMAGINE THE NEW SCIENTOLOGY WORLD ORDER..."
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 18:38:40 GMT
Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: IMAGINE THE NEW SCIENTOLOGY WORLD ORDER...
: * Imagine a time when no newspaper dares to publish anything
: about Scientology without first having Scientology's approval.
: * Imagine a time when all court and government records containing
: disclosures about Scientology have been destroyed or sealed
: from the public view.
: * Imagine that everyone who knew firsthand about Scientology's
: dangers and abuses has rationalized or emotionalized themselves
: into inaction.
Tilman's post betray's his German heritage. He thinks that if anyone
became more able, more intelligent or more powerful, they would certainly
destroy him. That's because he knows that that is what he would do if he
were given the chance. Hasn't history proven this to be true?
You can practice your NAZI-like bigotry in Germany, but in the U.S.
there is free speech and we can call a spade a spade.
Bob Wallert
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: A threat from the past
From: milne@crl.com (Andrew Milne)
Date: 12 Oct 1995 23:38:03 -0700
Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <45af0e$jgr@crl14.crl.com>, milne@crl.com (Andrew Milne) wrote:
: >Typical misinformation. The Church in Germany is expanding.
: >Don't confuse
: >a few bigoted government officials with the general public in Germany. If
: >the Church was declining in Germany, these officials wouldn't bother with
: >Scientology because they would not see it as a threat. Just how popular
: Your logic is faulty. The officials are against scientology because it
: is there. Even *one* single scientology con-person is too much.
Tilman, you just revealed your true colors. One Scientologist is too many in
Germany? What do you recommend -- another final solution?
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: A threat from the past
From: sgoehrin@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (scott goehring)
Date: 13 Oct 1995 14:40:29 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article <45l1gb$t9a@crl6.crl.com>, Andrew Milne <milne@crl.com> wrote:
(quoting Tilman)
>: Your logic is faulty. The officials are against scientology because it
>: is there. Even *one* single scientology con-person is too much.
>Tilman, you just revealed your true colors. One Scientologist is too many in
>Germany?
Milne, is this an acknowledgement that Scientologists are, to the last
individual, conmen?
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========
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 13:03:26 -0800
From: noodle@netcom.com (Rick Sherwood)
To: tilman@berlin.snafu.de
Subject: Re: Clams !
In article <478fp3$bjj@unlisys.unlisys.net> you wrote:
: Just a few minutes ago, I have eaten a lot of fresh clams in a light
: tomato sauce. I am persuaded to have restimulated at least a few hundred
: scientologists ! (BTW I wonder if the tomatoes from the sauce I ate were
: audited by LRH ?)
Tilman, how does it feel to be Nazi?
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Mark Ebner and Spy
From: koreenb@westworld.com (Cory Brennan)
Date: 1 Dec 1995 22:35:34 GMT
In article <schaf.817642747@cgl.ucsf.edu>, schaf@cgl.ucsf.edu (Chris
Schafmeister) wrote:
> tilman@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) writes:
>
> >In <gradyDIo5FI.8nA@netcom.com>, grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward) wrote:
>
> >>Don't bother. Leisa is the one that looked puzzled
> >>when the MTV host asked her about Xenu.
>
> >Her face was really white on ABC. Maybe she donates blood to pay her
> >courses. Maybe she's a zombie. She did not look on ABC like on her web
> >page. Maybe she took Helena Kobrin's "make-up: a purpose" course. Or
> >maybe she's a vampire. Next journalist to talk with her should bring a
> >mirror.
>
> >bewaare, bewaaaaaare !
>
> >Professor Tilman van Helsing
>
>
> And you won't find anyplace to run a stake through either.
> Anybody who can lie on MTV about an evil cult in order to
> try and suck kids into it can't have a human heart.
>
> Maybe she's running one of those snazy Jarvik 7 artificial jobbies.
>
> "click" "wheeze" "click" "wheeze" "click" "wheeze" "click" "wheeze"
>
> I hear they are all the rage with Scientologists these days.
>
>
> >--- Tilman Hausherr [KoX; awards: DB, SP decl. by Koos]
>
> .Chris.
> --
These are great illustrations for those who are looking for examples of
bigotry and hate propaganda on ARS.
By the way, Tilman, what do you think about the Neo-Nazi movement in
Germany? I would like to hear an in-depth opinion from you on this.
It's relevent, since its mainly Neo-Nazi's and sympathizers that are
attacking the Church there.
Cory
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.unification
Subject: Re: Foot-in-the-mouth for Tilman (was: CAN is a cult)
From: Roger <u238@popmail.mcs.net>
Date: 3 Dec 1995 22:03:14 GMT
tilman@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>In <koreenb-0112951244430001@a7.westworld.com>, koreenb@westworld.com
>(Cory Brennan) wrote:
>
>>I'm very glad you posted this actually, because it illustrates that the
>>Cult Awareness Network definitely fits its own definition of a cult. >>Since
>>the Cult Awareness Network is a hate group, and hate groups tend to be
>>cults by definition, this is not surprising.
>>
>>
>>> > A cult is a group that:
>>> >
>>> > 1) Regularly uses deception, in recruiting, and between the group
>>> > and leader and outsiders
>>
>>The people who run the Cult Awareness Network have been lying for years
>>about its true activities - a referral service to violent >>deprogrammers,
>>and/or participating in violent deprogrammings directly. The leaders >>lie
>>to the people who give them money (witness the "Jonestown scam" with Gary
>>Scarff giving tearjecker fundraiser speeches about his poor daddy who died
>>in Jonestown - actually alive and well and living in Florida). The leaders
>>also lie to people to get them to join, stating they are a non-profit
>>educational service. Nothing could be further from the truth. They are
>>actually a hate group distributing hate propaganda, then referring people
>>who get stirred up by it to their stable of criminal deprogrammers.
>
>Wrong. In all these years, CAN has been convicted in ONE case only. And
>that case is pending.
It figures that Tilman would support CAN, what with it's NAZI influence.
That's probably why he's defending it.
>> 2) Systematically uses thought reform to gain and hold members
>>
>>I would say that kidnapping someone, assaulting them, physically
>>restraining and/or drugging them, keeping them prisoner for days,
>>inundating them with yelling and screaming and negative repetitive
>>statements about their beliefs for hours at a time while depriving them of
>>food and sleep, etc, are attempts to use thought reform to gain and hold
>>members - even by the most liberal definition of the term. Pretty typical
>>deprogramming I just described.
>
>Explain me how CAN uses thought reform when they meet only once a year.
>Explain me how the people who got exit-counseling get recruited to CAN.
Tilman, tell us about the NAZI's and their thought reform and just how
did they manage to blame everything wrong on the Jews? Ever hear of Waco
Texas? The Branch Dividians didn't get a chance to do any
exit-counseling, thanks to CAN -Rick Ross, wasn't it?
>> 3) Has an authoritarian structure
>>
>>Cynthia Kisser, ED of CAN, apparently decides everything. There are no
>>organizational checks and balances - CAN appears to be a dictatorship.
>
>There were more different leaders of CAN in a decade than in 40 years of
>scientology.
Having a lot of different leaders signals that there are lots of inner
organization problems, lots of instability. Foot in mouth again, Tilman.
>> 4) Claims to be the repository of the Ultimate Truths
>>
>>CAN claims to be the "expert" and the organization that "really has the
>>truth" about religions, even though they have no actually qualified
>>experts to back this statement up. This is a very key point.
>>
>> CAN has presented itself as "the authority" on religions in this country,
>>and has even been accepted by some of the more careless media who have
>>almost not checked into their credentials. Because if they did, they would
>>find that CAN has absolutely no credentials whatsoever! Their complete
>>lack of any factual or scholarly basis for holding themselves out as
>>experts is a glaring illogic. None of the leaders of CAN have any
>>education in the area which would qualify them to be experts.
>>
>>So the only conclusion I can come to is they feel they have a "divine
>>right," perhaps because of a "message from God," which has endowed upon
>>them the privilege and status of holding the ultimate truth about other
>>religions. There is certainly no other logical explanation for this idea,
>>especially when you look at the fact that CAN feels this Ultimate Truth
>>justifies going out and kidnapping people in order to convert them to it.
>>
>>> > 5) Divides the population between "us" and "them"
>>
>>I can think of several examples of this. For instance, I was told that at
>>a recent CAN meeting, a couple who were interested in CAN were taking
>>notes. Cynthia Kisser accused them of being "cult members." Diane
>>Richardson, a CAN supporter, right here on ARS accused someone who was
>>obviously from another religion of 'working for Scientology.' This kind of
>>paranoid and individuated think illustrates the above point.
>
>No, this is based on experience. Considering scientology, it's better to
>be a little bit paranoid.
Not exactly. Think the paranoia is from making false and slanderous
statements.
>
>>In fact, some of the most individuated people I have ever met have been
>>affiliated with CAN. They think that everyone that has a devout belief or
>>belongs to one of hundreds of religions they label cults - is a "them."
>>Not to be trusted, not to be communicated with except in the context of a
>>deprogramming, preferably physically restrained by several large men.
>>Perhaps that is why Jeff Jacobsen never replies to my personal posts to
>>him...
>
>He did already reply a few months ago. You know it.
>
>>> > 6) Demands excessive amounts of time and money from members
>>
>>CAN has contunually used fraudulent fund raiser techniques such as the
>>Jonestown scam to get people to open their pocketbooks generously. And
>>has used deprogrammed (brainwashed) individuals to "tell their story" so
>>that CAN can recruit other people and convince them they need to kidnap
>>somebody.
>
>Did it never come into your mind that ex-culties are happy to speak out
>to help others ?
>
>>
>>There is more information which illustrates that CAN is one of the most
>>dangerous cults around, this is just a sampling.
>>
>>Cory
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: HAte Group affiliation
From: koreenb@jovanet.com (Cory Brennan)
Date: 4 Dec 1995 19:32:44 GMT
It's interesting to see how many ties to known hate groups the critics of
Scientology on ARS have.
Tilman Hauseur supports the activities of those who promote the Nazi
agenda in Germany and who have attacked Scientology, and has publicly
stated that he feels that even one Scientologist left in Germany is one
too many.
Arnaldo Lerma is a Board of Policy member of the LIberty Lobby, described
by the Anti-Defamation League as "The wealthiest and one of the most
active anti-semitic organizations in the United States."
The Southern Poverty Law Center (which litigates against hate groups, and
provides educational activities to promote tolerance) has exposed William
Carto, publisher of the anti-semite newspaper "The Spotlight", and head of
Liberty Lobby, as being a dedicated rascist.
Carto is quoted as once having said, "only a few Americans are concerned
with the inevitable niggerification of America." He has also criticized
Scientology in his propaganda publication, "The Spotlight." This same
publication is full of paranoid hate propaganda about Israel, and various
Jewish activities and organizations in the US. The advertising for this
publication, by the way, is very deceptive and fraudulent regarding the
actual content.
Jeff Jacobsen and Priscilla Coates are Cult Awareness Network members.
This is an anti-religious hate group which spreads hate propaganda about
numerous religion, including numerous Christian religions. They don't stop
at propaganda though. They and their deprogrammers commit the violent acts
associated with most hate groups, such as assault against members of
religious group members.
Diane Richardson is very supportive of this group and its activities, as
evidenced by her committed defense of this group on AOL recently. On ARS,
she has denied her support of this group for some reason.
Dennis Erlich has also been connected with Priscilla Coates, head of CAN
LA. Priscilla is the person who publicly defended Ted Patrick, who has
been convicted at least three times of drug possession and/or violent acts
against individuals (for instance, using a straight edge razor in a
deprogramming to assault somebody, among other things). She said he was a
"very honorable man, a person who cares," and once publicly stated that
everybody in CAN has been a deprogrammer.
None of the Scientology critics associated with these hate groups have
satisfactorily answered questions about their sympathies or involvement
with these groups.
In light of the level of bigotry and hate coming from certain of the
Scientology critics on ARS, I feel these hate group affiliations are
extremely relevent and should be more closely examined.
Cory
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Question for Tilman
From: Roger <u238@popmail.mcs.net>
Date: 7 Dec 1995 01:51:02 GMT
How come there is so much similarity between the way NAZI's talked about
Jews and the way you and other a.r.s. hate-group members talk about the
Church of Scientology?
Roger
========
To: tilman@berlin.snafu.de
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: SIG HEIL!! TILMAN HAUSHERR! (was Re: Publisher "[name]" identified
From: Roger <u238@popmail.mcs.net>
Date: 8 Dec 1995 03:32:23 GMT
Tilman,
Andy has answered your question that you sent me on private email.
I'll post it here for the world to see.
There is more and more evidence between similar treatment that was
conducted against the Jews by the NAZI's and the way Scientologists are
being attacked. This is but a small example, but it does serve to
illustrate something the hate-group mongerers would rather keep hidden in
the dark.
(posted and emailed to Tilman)
Roger
p.s. Hey Tilman, the chances are very good that I'll be in Der Fatherland
for the holidays. But, I won't be having any Schnapps with you!
milne@crl.com (Andrew Milne) wrote:
>Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
>: In <30c4013f.1006940@news.snafu.de>, tilman@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>: Hausherr) wrote:
>
>: >In <49vko9$4lf@crl13.crl.com>, milne@crl.com (Andrew Milne) wrote:
>: >
>: >>Precisely. You just made my exact point. That anyone who is not a
>: >>Scientologist and takes his own stand on this issue and whose name then
>: >>appears on this newsgroup becomes a target of abuse and discrimination.
>: >>
>: >>This just confirms my impression that the fewer people there are who are
>: >>exposed to this kind of risk, the better.
>: >
>: >This is partly true, but why not answer the following question:
>
>: What I mean is that when a guy makes a statement supporting scientology,
>: then he will usually be suspected of being a scientologist, or clueless.
>: Of course for Milne, this is "abuse and discrimination".
>
>You really do expose your true colors with your posts, Tilman.
>"Suspected" of being a Scientologist. And why are you so curious to know
>if he is a Scientologist? (He is not, by the way). What business is it of
>yours what a person's religion is?
>
>You live in Germany. In the early 1930s, anyone "suspected" of being a
>Jew or of having Jewish blood in them, or of being friendly with Jews,
>was ostracised. And the final outcome of all that was far worse than mere
>ostracism.
>
>Today there are similar indicators to those that were apparent in Germany
>in the early 1930s. Your government is supposed to be committed to
>neutrality in matters of religion, yet Helmut Kohl's No. 2 actually
>personally conducted a demonstration outside a Church. He could only
>muster about 30 people. But can you imagine a US senator demonstrating
>outside a Church?
>
>Germany's reputation is frankly being injured by actions such as these,
>as evidenced by the UN report, the Helsinki Commission and the US State
>Department reports which cite discrimination by US government officials
>against Scientologists.
========
To: tilman@berlin.snafu.de
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: SIG HEIL!! TILMAN HAUSHERR! (was Re: Publisher "[name]" identified
From: Roger <u238@popmail.mcs.net>
Date: 9 Dec 1995 07:08:31 GMT
tilman@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>In <4a8bk7$3v2@News1.mcs.net>, Roger <u238@popmail.mcs.net> wrote:
>
>>Tilman,
>>
>> Andy has answered your question that you sent me on private email.
>>I'll post it here for the world to see.
>
>I think I did *not* send you private e-mail recently (post it if I'm
>wrong). I sent one courtesy copy to Cory Brennan. Maybe that's the one
>you got. Are you two the same person ?
Nope. But nice try at damage control. Are you the same as William Barlow,
Rogue Agent and Diane Richardson?
>
>> There is more and more evidence between similar treatment that was
>>conducted against the Jews by the NAZI's and the way Scientologists are
>>being attacked. This is but a small example, but it does serve to
>>illustrate something the hate-group mongerers would rather keep hidden in
>>the dark.
>
>The jewish community was very angry at the scientologists. It filed a
>complaint, and the police seized all the hate propaganda from the co$.
Gawd are you out to lunch! You have no idea how stupid a statement that
is, probably because you have no idea how many Jews are in Scientology.
If there is ANY truth to your lying statement you for sure are not
telling all. Hey, is that the reason WHY Tilman Hausherr is so rabid
anti-Scientologist? Are you really after the Jews and using Scientology
as a smoke screen? Trying to get the Jews and the Scientologists to
fight? That's something that a suppressive person would do.
>
>In the US the boss of the ADL, Abraham Foxman, was also not amused.
>Heber Jentzsch wrote him a letter that someone on a.r.s. compared to
>"Sedar Argic".
Don't know who "Sedar Argic" was.
>
>>(posted and emailed to Tilman)
>>Roger
>>p.s. Hey Tilman, the chances are very good that I'll be in Der Fatherland
>>for the holidays. But, I won't be having any Schnapps with you!
>
>Neither will I.
>
>BTW, it's a good idea not to say "sieg heil" or other nazi stuff in this
>country. People here don't like that. Also I advise you not to call
>"nazi" each time something's not going the way you want.
Thanks for the "advice", but face it Tilman. Your homepage couldn't be
any more NAZI-like if you tried. Besides, your volumnous personal emails
(filled with hate, malovalent intentions and lies) was a testament to
your NAZI sympathies. The people that post on a.r.s. ought to know
what your feelings are. Have you been hiding that from them? I don't know
if you're using them more than they're using you to accomplish the same
goal: destroy Scientology by bad-mouthing it to death.
--
(posted and emailed)
Roger
Have you seen the movie "Scrooge" yet? If not, what are you waiting for?
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Nazi activity
From: koreenb@jovanet.com (Cory Brennan)
Date: 12 Dec 1995 10:58:09 GMT
In <koreenb-0412951225020001@marina-30.jovanet.com>, koreenb@jovanet.com
(Cory Brennan) wrote:
>It's interesting to see how many ties to known hate groups the critics of
>Scientology on ARS have.
>
>Tilman Hauseur supports the activities of those who promote the Nazi
>agenda in Germany and who have attacked Scientology, and has publicly
>stated that he feels that even one Scientologist left in Germany is one
>too many.
<<Show me where I have said that. I have never said that. I know what I
said, you know what I said (obviously scientology maintains a folder
with my posts), and we both know that it's *not* what you said above.
You can't even spell my name. >>
Tilman, instead of beating around the bush about what you said, why don't
you tell us what you think the solution to Scientologists should be in
your country? Do you think their businesses should be shunned based on
their religious belief? Do you think their children should be barred from
attending public schools or not? Do you think Scientologists should be
able to buy a home anywhere in Germany? Do you think they should be given
business licenses based on the same criteria as anyone else? Do you think
they should have the same rights as everybody else?
What do you think of the publication "InSects - No Thanks" (with a picture
of flies and a fly swatter on the cover, aimed at new religions in
Germany) distributed by the Young Union CDU party? Does that remind you of
anything distributed in Germany, say, circa 1936?
<<And please show me where I have supported "those who promote the Nazi
agenda". Or does per definition everyone against Co$ support the Nazi
agenda ?>>
Tilman, you know very well what is going on in your country, and you agree
with it based on your posts to ARS.
If not, let us know publicly that you absolutely don't agree with the Nazi
approach to things, including the expressions of bigotry which led up to
the holocaust originally, and are occurring anew in your country today. If
you are really against the new Nazi's in Germany you should have no
problem publicly condemning their activities.
<<Ms Brennan, I will not tolerate personal libel. I await your apology.>>
No, it is I that await your apology, though I don't expect to ever get it.
Cory
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: ARS= Rabid New Cult
From: koreenb@jovanet.com (Cory Brennan)
Date: 2 Jan 1996 17:20:27 GMT
In article <4c94cb$bg2@News1.mcs.net>, Roger <u238@popmail.mcs.net> wrote:
> anon-remailer@utopia.hacktic.nl (Anonymous) wrote:
> >In article <4bh71a$70l@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, fusedon606@aol.com
> >(FUSEDon606) wrote:
> >
> >> This Newsgroup (sic) is the most RABID collection of Hate and Evil ever to
> >> be spewed on the Net.
> >> 1000 times worse than the Church these anti-Sci's have become
> >> Evil-Incarnate.
> >> Hate and Revenge have turned what appears to be semi-intelligent
> >> sub-genius's into rabid dogs in a feeding frenzy of insanity.
> >
> > You sowed the wind, now reap the whirlwind. You were warned asshole.
> >- Henry7,Enemy Marcabia,SP3,KoX,Joker&Degrader,Assignment:Space Station 33
>
> ARS = ANTI-RELIGIOUS-SOCIETY
Yes, this is one of the best examples I have seen of the true nature of
this group of "critics" on ARS, a hate group that uses the same justifiers
that every hate group throughout history has used to justify its depravity
and barbarity.
The Bosnian Serbian militia, the KKK, the Nazis, and on and on, have
always blamed someone else for their own depraved actions.
This of course, makes them no more than a stimulas-response mechanism,
incapable of thoughtfulness and real action - only capable of knee-jerk
reaction.
But this is what many psychiatrists say we all are anyway, which may be
one reason this group tends to be so rabidly pro-psychiatric theory.
One of the most ironic things about anti-religious hate groups, is that
they become more cult-like than any "cult" they are criticizing. In order
to maintain their level of hate, they must ignore any data which might
show that their bizarre theories are not correct, and must grasp onto any
statement that agrees with their twisted and hate filled world view.
Thus they end up mindlessly and blindly believing and following people
like Steve Fishman, one of the most blatantly dedicated criminals and con
artists I have ever observed. And they end up completely unable to think
for themselves or evaluate data that does not agree with their narrow
viewpoint.
What is the solution to hate? Not more hate.
It is important to point it out for exactly what it is, and to continue to
point it out, but I ask anyone that is able, to consider this quote from L
Ron Hubbard:
"Happiness and strength endure only in the absense of hate. To hate alone
is the road to disaster. To love is the road to strength. To love in spite
of all is the secret of greatness. And may very well be the greatest
secret of this universe."
Cory Brennan
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: free speech vs free religion?
From: koreenb@jovanet.com (Cory Brennan)
Date: 11 Jan 1996 20:04:28 GMT
In article <4cugh1$dtd@utopia.hacktic.nl>, nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote:
> In article <koreenb-0901960123300001@marina-5.jovanet.com>,
> koreenb@jovanet.com (Cory Brennan) wrote:
>
> > In article <4b3445$5ir@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, spintheca@aol.com
> > (SpinTheCa) wrote:
> >
> > > Cory--
> > > I get the feeling you're not listening.
>
> > > You keep saying over and over again (argument by repetition!) that the
> > > Constitution forbids interference with freedom of religious beliefs....
> > > and then interpreting that to mean
> > > 1. That criticizing Scientology is unconstitutional
> > > 2. That the US government should never investigate Scientology's practices
> > > 3. That private individuals should not be allowed to make up their own
> > > minds about whether you are full of crap
>
> > Let me clarify, because this is a misinterpretation of what I said.
>
> > 1. I never said that criticizing Scientology is unconstitutional, nor do I
> > believe that. This is a serious leap of logic on your part.
>
> "The point being, that this is not just an issue of free speech. Some
> critics are using this issue as a red herring to obscure the fact that
> they are directly attacking our constitutional right to practice our
> religion as we believe."
>
> There is no constitutional right which states that religious freedom means
> fredom from criticism. You later on claim that indeed there is a legal
> right (freedom of speech) and a social right (freedom of religious
> beliefs).
>
There is also a legal right to freedom of religion in the US at least, but
that is a seperate issue.
>
>
> "The only time this would logically ever become an issue would be when
someone
> was trying to violate someone else's rights via the use of speech. I.e.
> libel, inciting hate crimes, perjury, false testimony, etc."
>
> Yet you have to show not assert that people committed libel, incite hate
> crimes, commit perjury or false testimony. I can give you examples. You
> refered to Tilman as a nazi, you accused Jeff and others of criminal acts,
> you made claims based upon research articles/newspaper articles which are
> plainly wrong.
No, I accuse Jeff of supporting an organization that commits criminal
acts, and have shown proof of this. And I have corrected the mistake made
in quoting the wrong study, and shown further evidence of my point on the
subject, which has not been refuted.
In Tilman's case, I think we may have two different definitions of a
Nazi, and I understand that the term is very inflammatory in his country,
so I will not call him that again, though I will assert that he very
heavily and actively anti-religious, and that he doesn't recognize the
dangerous path his government is moving toward - a path that will result
in restrictions of free speech and other rights *for everyone* in Germany
if it is continued.
>
> Then you try to expand the 'crimes' to:
>
> "But it is_not_ confined to free speech, it encompasses
> copyright violation, harrassment of Churches and of individual
> Scientologists, boycotting of Scientologists' businesses, various actions
> taken to try to prevent us from communicating about our religion, and
> personal attacks on Scientologists such as the recent picture of a staff
> member affixed to a pornographic photo and then distributed on the 'net."
>
> You have to show copyright violations, to my best knowledge harassing
> people for quoting six lines of a larger texts does not constitute such.
> Nor have the recent suits been settled now have they ? Give us examples of
> harassments by critics Cory ? I can give you a few Henry, Rogue, David,
> Grady, Washington Post, Time magazine, xs4all, Karin Spaink.
In the search of Wollershiem's computer, thousands of substantial
violations were found. Not six lines, Pim.
>
> Boycotting scientology business is not a crime.
>
> Preventing communication is not a crime unless it involves cancellation of
> people's postings as done on the Internet.
What? This is totally illogical. Cancelling people's posts is not a crime
as far as I know. Preventing someone's communication in other
circumstances certainly could be a crime. For instance, in an involuntary
deprogramming, a person is_physically_ prevented from speaking to anyone
the kidnappers don't want him to. False imprisonment, resulting in the
inability to communicate and travel freely, is a crime.
Also, if there are constitutional laws granting free practice of religion
and/or free speech in a country, preventing someone from communicating
because of his religious beliefs could be a violation of that country's
constitution. This could be done in a variety of ways, via intimidation,
threat of arrest, disallowing any access to printing, etc.
I'd say there was quite a big difference in the magnitude of the examples
I gave compared to canceling someone's post, which they can just re-post.
.AOL's policy to remove critical
> postings sounds like double standards since folders of ex-catholics or
> anti-new-age postings are present but no recovering scientologist folder
> is allowed. Please show us how people on ARS have prevented
> communications.
There is a Scientology folder in the debate area, where several other
folders like this are located. You are certainly allowed to say whatever
you want.
Anyway, what does AOL have to do with this? They are a private company,
that can have any policy they want - not the government. Do you understand
the difference?
>
> Personal attacks: The picture was in poor taste and many people on ARS
> stated as much so there is the evidence that critics are actually quite
> responsibel but neverthelesse they act as individuals and not as church
> organized groups to flood the channels.
You don't get my point. Hate propagada incites acts like this. It never
would have happened if it weren't for the hate propaganda on ARS. I'm not
talking about criticism, i'm talking about rabid propaganda - i.e. lies
used to incite a particular reaction. There is a difference.
>
> > 3. I've never said this either, nor do I believe it. There is something
> > very basic about the Scientology religion that you should understand. The
> > whole point of Scientology is to make a person more and more
> > self-determined, and more and more able to make up his own mind, based on
> > data and evaluation of it. L Ron Hubbard emphasized this a lot in his
> > various lectures. It is a *fundamental* of Scientology. One could say that
> > other datums in Scientology are as valuable as they contribute to that
> > one.
>
> Examples of such open mind:
>
> "You, for instance, appear to have made up your mind before you ever
> looked at our side of the story."
>
> How can you tell. There are vaste resources available on the net.
This is an opinion, and I use the word "appear" to make it obvious.It is
based on my observation of Judith's communication about Scientology and
her obvious pre-formed opinions about me. I still hold this opinion, but
I can change my mind easily if the evidence supports it.
>
> "I don't know if this is true of you or not yet,
> but most of the active critics that I've observed are completely unwilling
> or unable to honestly consider any viewpoint of Scientology that disagrees
> with their already formed opinion. That is intolerance, not examination of
> a subject. So it is misleading to imply that "examination" is what the
> most active critics are doing on ARS."
>
> You are accusing the critics of your own actions Cory. You are the one who
> is unable to step away from the church policy of hatred towards
> psychiatry, government etc.
I don't hate psychiatry, or government. What have I said that makes you
think I hate government? I do believe that psychiatry has dangerous and
harmful abuses happening within its ranks which need to get handled. I'm
open for any evidence that would show that psychiatry has cleaned its
house and is no longer commiting abuses.
>
> You show in this posting an ability to generalize, to close your mind to
> opposing views, to hypothesize (let's assume) and then draw conclusions
> from this hypothetical case as if they are the truth.
>
> You accuse others of your own actions, you accuse governments of
> harassment for investigating the crimes of your organization.
No, I have accused specific governments at specific times of harrassment
for investigating us for no good reason, and violating our constitutional
rights while they were at it. Do you honestly believe that governments
have never done this to people either regularly or occasionally?
Cory
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Reverend "Alfreddie" Johnson
From: koreenb@jovanet.com (Cory Brennan)
Date: 16 Jan 1996 09:30:36 GMT
In article <30f2f252.13666548@news.snafu.de>, tilman@berlin.snafu.de wrote:
> In <koreenb-0901961147530001@marina-5.jovanet.com>, koreenb@jovanet.com
> (Cory Brennan) wrote:
>
> >Alfreddie Johnson has preached in a Baptist church in Compton, California
> >for years. His congregation definitely supports him. He is a dynamic
> >preacher, who backs up his words with effective actions in his community.
>
> Cory, please explain us how *you* have found out that "his congregation"
> supports him.
>
> Please tell us *when* it supported him.
>
> Please tell us also *who* his congregation is. LA Scientologists ? Gang
> members who get a free lunch if they attend ?
No, it is people in his community in Compton, USA. Families, individuals,
etc. I believe he is no longer giving regular sermons there, because he
has been traveling to other inner cities to start new inner city literacy
programs in conjunction with Baptist churches and other community
organizations. He is a dedicated man, and a very caring man, Tilman. This
is very obvious to those who meet him.
>
> Please define the word "congregation". Remember, M/Us are dangerous. You
> might be sent to ethics.
Congregation: ...3. A group of people met together for worship; also, the
body of persons who worship in a local church; a parish." (Funk and
Wagnells desk dictionary)
>
> Please tell us how he lives with "In South Africa, a Bantu's withholds
> read not on the needle alone but on the Tone Arm as well",
He doesn't misinterpret it as you and others have done, and he doesn't
take it out of context. He recognizes an organization that gives very real
and very effective help when he sees one, too.
> and how he
> lives with "there was no christ". I assume that Baptists believe in
> Christ. Do you, Ms Brennan ?
Yes, I most definitely do. I have seen nothing in Scientology that would
contradict my belief. But I also know how to evaluate importances and I
know not to take things out of context too. Something I see rarely if ever
from critics on ARS, when it comes to L Ron Hubbard's writings.
By the way, I saw Alfreddie speak to a Scientologist audience a few months
ago. He started out his speech by asserting his belief in Jesus Christ as
the Son of God, affirming his worship and obedience to God and quoted the
Bible more than once during his talk.
> If you don't answer these questions, I have to assume, much to my
> sadness (not!) that you have lied again.
>
> Btw, you still haven't told where you got your "Bobbitt" story, and the
> evidence that I am supporting the nazi agenda. Your libel against me is
> no small thing: you work for OSA LA. Therefore I can safely say that I
> have been libelled by the Church of Scientology. I am still waiting for
> your apology or your evidence.
Yes, I have posted the "bobbitt" references several times now, but I will
post them again since you missed it.
Also, I posted that I discovered that in Germany, using the term Nazi has
quite a different meaning than in the US (a very specific meaning), and I
have no evidence that you practice Nazism as it is understood in Germany.
I did not understand this when I posted the above statement, and did not
mean to imply that you fit the German definition - I was not even _aware_
of that definition. So I retract that statement.
But I do assert that you support activities, such as denying membership to
political parties, etc, which will result in restricted freedom for all
Germans if they are continued. And I do not think you understand the
implications for your country and its people. Because if you do, that
makes your motives a bit darker than what I have suggested here.
Cory
>
> Tilman
>
========
[From AOL]
Datum: 14.01.1996 07:50:37
Von: AlphOhm
Angehangt an: America Online
WWOODSS 2 pfenig:
>>Sadly, Alph's response to Thausherr's posts is to ridicule his ethnic
origins through his name...This is a clear violation of TOS and gives a poor
impression to our friends in Europe, and Germany in particular...
The internet is a wonderful tool to bring us all closer
together...unfortunately Alph and a few others continue to build walls.<<
Neil....oh Neil....WAKE UP!!
Tilmadchen is a flaming anti-Scientologist... if you two want to be 'closer"
great...perhaps that's your gig...make a private room : M4M/hate Scientology
or something. Myself...I think both of you should bugger out of the
Scientology folders. You of all clowns pointing out TOS violations.
Sheesh...
As for the ethnic/country references...Tilman would be seen as a "skinhead"
or "Nazi" if he were posting anti-Semitic drivel in the Jewish folders.
Somehow you think it is OK, though that he does the same sort of thing in
the Scientology folders. I'd say "go figure", but my guess is you do a lot
of that already...
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: ARS LEAD BALLOONS
From: mikesmith3@aol.com (MikeSmith3)
Date: 1 Apr 1996 03:40:22 -0500
*********** ************** *****************
************************************************
ARS LEAD BALLOONS*
************************************************
*********** ************* *****************
In honor of April Fool's Day LEAD BALLOON*
trophies have been awarded.
The first LEAD BALLOON goes to Diane Richardson
as the best artificial intelligence program. We are
looking forward to version 2.0 with an improved
spell checker. (Beta testers are currently being solicited.)
Jeff Jacobsen is awarded the MEDIA X-PERT LEAD
BALLOON for his ad campaign promoting the first World
Wide Stealth Picket. Congratulations to Jeff! Only
seventy four people from the entire planet's population
showed up by accident.
The NET JANITOR LEAD BALLOON goes to Henry
for his certified cool people, for cleaning out the riffraff,
and putting them in their place.
The SMARTY PANTS LEAD BALLOON is awarded to
David ("What do you think I am, a complete dupe?") Bird.
(Saint Bappo of Augustine)
Now this one was unanimous. The TATTLETALE LEAD
BALLOON was won by Jon (Topic Cop) Norling for
bringing to the attention of Cory's ISP that she'd been naughty.
There was a three way tie for the BEST SIMULATION
of EXTREME PMS LEAD BALLOON. Karin Spaink,
Tarla Star and Martin Hunt.
The FOOT IN BIG MOUTH LEAD BALLOON goes to
Grady ("There's nothing you can do about it") Ward.
The MINUS FOUR HUNDRED FIFTY NINE POINT SIX
NINE DEGREES FAHRENHEIT** LEAD BALLOON belongs
to Steve Fishman for his contribution to ARS.**absolute zero
The DENNIS ERLICH LEAD BALLOON goes to Bill Barwell
and the BILL BARWELL LEAD BALLOON goes to Dennis
Erlich. Three Bronx Cheers to each!!!
Honorable mention to David "All Drunk" Gerard for *TWO*
"Stealth Pickets" and Tilman for his snazzy Adolph mustache.
*Given to those whose performances went over like a lead balloon.
========
From: Rav 1 <s140910@student.uq.edu.au>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: TIDBITS ON TILMAN
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 02:49:41 +1100
German programmer Tilman Hausher found himself unable to cope with our
vigorous religious discussion and sterted off by calling me "cultie"
etc, etc. Then came a threatening email where he said "he was going to
expose me." I think he rather had fantasies about the possibility of me
being a 16 year old girl! Anyway, this programmer used his talents to
dig around (possibly illegally) and produce suspicious looking
"evidence" attempting to destroy my internet standing.
His distinct lack of intellect causes him to attack reputations rather
that arguments, much like the Nazi's did to the Jews. Well, Tilman's
grandfather would have been pleased at his virulent "dirty tricks" and
hate campaigns (seig heil and all that). Still support that party Herr
Tilman or your membership run out?
Interestingly Herr Tilman is a "self confessed sicko" (from his own web
page). I wonder... What skeletons lie in his little closet?
My advice to you is don't engage him in argument or he'll concoct the
most slanderous stories about you.
Engage your intellect Mr Tilman or a slander lawsuit may just jump out
at you. Does Sietec Systemtechnik know about your "out of office
actvities" (not just on the internet either)?
Rav
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: NOW magazine article on CoS spam attack
From: Rav 1 <s140910@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 17:12:02 +1100
Tilman Hausherr wrote:
>
> In <4rj4ms$g60@orion.cybercom.net>, Ron Newman <rnewman@cybercom.net>
> wrote:
>
> >NOW magazine, a Toronto weekly, has published a long article on the
> >Church of Scientology's recent spam attack on alt.religion.scientology.
> >You can read it at
> >
> > http://www.now.com/issues/15/44/News/feature.html
> >
> >
>
> Netscape does not convert pages with tables into a text. Is there anyone
> who uses a browers which can do this ?
>
> Tilman
I tought you were a smart computer nerd Tilmann? Why ask for help this
way. So tell us about your grandfathers wartime experiences.
Rav
========
Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult
Subject: "EXPOSING" TILMAN HAUSHERR
From: Rav 1 <s140910@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 17:19:23 +1100
Herr Hausherr has been spreading innuendo about me on the net bacuase I
argue/ post in support of Scientology. He has even tried to get my
server to kick me off!
I has recievd emails from other net users complaining of his actions
regarding them. He avoids the issue and makes it personal in the best
Nazi traditions.
Just be wary around as he's quite vicious.
Rav
========
To: tilman@berlin.snafu.de
Subject: Re: TIDBITS cont.
From: Rav <s140910@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 21:55:41 +1000
Tilman baby...
1) How many of your family were/are Nazi's?
2) Does your employer know about your religious hate campaigns on the net?
Rav
========
To: tilman@berlin.snafu.de
Subject: Re: Questions for Rav!
From: Rav 1 <s140910@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 00:09:02 +1100
Tilman Hausherr wrote:
>
> In <Pine.GSO.3.93.960704193228.16857C-100000@newworld.bridge.net>, Josh
> <bozak@newworld.bridge.net> wrote:
>
> (... questions ...)
>
> 6. Rav*, you alleged that I had called you "cultie". Please provide the
> post / e-mail where I did this.
>
> 7. Rav*, you alleged that I send you a threatening e-mail in which said
> that "I was going to expose you". Please post that e-mail.
>
> 8. Rav*, you alleged that I "have even tried to get my server to kick
> you off". Please post evidence proving this.
>
> 9. Rav*, you claim that you have received e-mail from other users
> complaining of his actions regarding them. Please write / post these
> complaints.
>
> 10. Rav*, you claim that I "spyed on your chatline conversations".
> Please provide evidence that 1. I did so, 2. I forwarded these
> conversations to anyone.
>
> Tilman
My , my Tilman, only if you tell us what Nazi connection you and you
family had/have in Germany. Your nation sems to breed fanatics. You are
one of them.
Rav
========
To: tilman@berlin.snafu.de
Subject: Re: Chopra With Prostitute II - The URL
From: Rav 1 <s140910@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 00:16:33 +1100
Tilman Hausherr wrote:
>
> In <4t1br3$fjm@news.ios.com>, nocera@haven.ios.com (Dave Nocera) wrote:
>
> >Give us a break, Chopra would not use his credit card to pay for a
> >call girl as this URL suggests is fact. And what call girl keeps
> >her receipts for 5 years, I guess in case of an IRA audit? Think
> >about it, it does not pass the common sense test. If a "spiritual
> >man" was seeing a call girl, don't you think he would want to hide
> >that fact.
>
> Sure, it sounds unlikely. But Chopra had an easy way to prove his
> innocence - but he didn't. (His passport).
>
> You think it would be dumb to pay a hooker with credit card - yes. Here
> in Germany, a pianist/singer was arrested for cocaine - they got him
> because had paid it with a check !!!
>
> >Someone wants to destroy Chopra's integrity and they think that this
>
> I didn't know he had any.
>
> Tilman
>
> >nonsense will do it. People who publish this trash are really making
> >a statement about their own integrity. Anyone with half a brain
> >will look at the facts see this for what it is, "total bunk".
Tilman, have you read ANY of Chopra's works? You really take pleasure in
trying to destroy anything remotely spiritual don't you? Had a traumatic
childhood? Not getting enough sex? That would explain your interest in
hookers and credit cards.
Rav
========
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 96 01:41:36 -0700
From: "Ernest A. Meyerhoff" <espresso@phoenixat.com>
To: tilman@berlin.snafu.de
Subject: Germ-mans who love themselves but hate everyone else!
Tilman,
Thank you for your homepage, it left me....emotional.
"In Germany, the Nazis came for the Communists and I didn't speak up
because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the Jew, and I did not
speak up because I was not a Jew."
"Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I
wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I was
Protestant and so I didn't speak up. Then they came for me..and by that
time there was no one left to speak for anyone."
-Pastor Martin Niemoller
Protestant Clergyman
As typical of the germ-man race you have found another scapegoat to
pitch all you propaganda and hatred at. I am of German heritage but I am
ashamed of the humilation they have brought upon themselves in this
century. They started two world wars of which the United States had to
intervene costing so many lives and money on all fronts. They have
presecuted a nation of people, killing millions of Jews for what today is
called "enthic cleansing".
I am now ashamed that the great Germ-man race has decided to
attack again. The skin heads in this country are being slowly but
surely, apprehended for their crimes and are serving time in our prisons.
They think that Dr. Aryan's concept of the supreme race still exists.
On the contrary, if there is such a thing as a supreme race it
will be the Clears in Scientology.
When the pieces fall and there is nothing left, it will be the
Scientologist that will be there picking up the pieces and creating the
better world. Why, because we have a creed that we all believe in and in
that creed we believe that all men have inalienable rights to their own
religious practices and their performance, as well as the own lives,
sanity, defense regardless of the race, color or creed.
Our creed is very similar to the United States Bill of Rights and
as you know the US of A has been standing free for over two hundred
years. Why, did L. Ron Hubbard choose such a freedom giving creed if he
wanted to make his followers into slaves?
Now, it is time to quote some more Germ-mans that also think the
same way that you do. So, as we say here in American poker, read them
and weep!
Ral-Dietmar Mucha, managing Director of an anti-religious hate
group in Dusseldof stated in a newspaper article in the Heidenheim
newspaper in 1992 that, one could identify Scientologists by their smell
and by their fixed start. He has stated that Scientologists should not
be allowed to have children.
Here is a similar remark made by Der Sturmer in December of 1933
in reference to a Jew, "What should I do? The odor of my race does not
dissipate despite foot baths, cologne, brillantine and peppermint
tablets.
Friedrich-Wilhem Haack, was quoted in the Munich Evening News on
January 11, 1980 as saying against a faculty in Tubingen, The
Sociological faculty of Tubingen has delivered so far is pure insanity.
Without the participation of psychiatrists and psychologists there will
be no decent result.
Der Sturmer November 1937 Money is power! Those who need Jewish
money must feel our pwer. We only have to make nations live beyongd
their means so the will need our money. Shows picture of Money Demon
with a Jewish face and a Star of David tattoo on his chest.
German edition of Forbes September 1992 Shows the Scientology
cross turning into a demon.
Der Sturmer, March 1939, shows a picture of a spider with the Star
of David on its back; its web is labeled "Intrigues." A hand is reaching
in and destroying the web. "Spider in the Web! Of what use is to the
waiting spider a web that soon will be in shreds beside her."
Die Tageszeitung, Junes 6, 1992, "Web of the Mind-seller a
documentation presented concerning the work of the Scientology Church.
Zivot,August 1992 shows a picture of a man caught in a large
spider web.
Sudwest Press ulm, February 27,1992, Scientologists are Weaving a
Web, Strategy of the Cult Through infiltration of the economy to
Political power- an insider speaks out.
Helga Solinger in 1991 a member of the Baden-Wurttemberg
Parliament expressed her political opinion in regard to the phenomenon of
new religious movements as follows: "It has always been important to
fight false and dangerous healers, those promising the single straight
way to happiness and success, those promising salvation on earth. And in
this particular case that of the Church of Scientology, this is even more
important."
Heinrich Himmler 1937-38 in instructions from Reichsfuhrer SS for
fighting religious opponents; Strong measures however must be prepared
against the sects.... The danger of the sects lies in the fact that they
engage in: 1 Education of members toward self-centered ideas and not
caring about nation concerns... 8. Faith healing 9. Exploitation and the
stupefaction of the people.
Der Sturmer, May 1940 Headlines, Their God Is Money, (In reference
to the Jewish man praying to a safe full of money).
Hamburger Abendblatt, February 22 1989 Headlines Their God Is
Money. (In refernece to animated roots of a tree bearing the Scientology
cross that are squeezing three individuals, one of whom can abe seen
disgorging money.)
Der Strumer, October 1933, August 1933 and July 1935 headlines all
refered to the Jews as being or doing acts of criminals.
Allgemeine Zeitung Mainz, January 31, 1992 Headlines "They Are
Criminals, They Should Be Forbidden'In Welzlar, the Church of Scientology
Is a Daily Issue"
Tilman, in your country people are being fired from their jobs
because they are Scientologists. Businesses that are own by Scientologist
are being shun or vandalized. Death threats are being made torward
Scientologists. Very similar to the same circumstances that occurred in
Hilter's Germany many years ago, except now the victims are not Jews they
are Scientologist.
Renate Hartwig, who lives in Pfaffenhofen is the former director
of a singles club. She has made a name for herself through her
unscrupulous behavior. There have been approximately 25 penal complaints
filed against her for fraud, slander and incitement to hatred. Numerous
former customers of her dating service-all non-Scientologists-claim to
have been defrauded by her.
She has forwarded the ideas that all property, organizations and
assets of Scientologists should be taken away from them;p that all
accounts of Scientologist should be frozen; that all business and legal
transactions carried out by Scientologists should be challenged; that the
numerous positive court decisions won by Churches of Scientology in
Germany should be re-opened; that there should be "high security
facilities" set up for holding Scientologists; and that all Churches of
Scientology should be prohibited.
Ralf Abel, a Hamburg lawyer, is chairman of athe support group for
a German ideological organization. This ideological organiszation,
according to an October 31, 1991, judgment from the Regional Cjourt of
Hamburg, may be labeled a Nazi sect.
For the past decade, Abel has promoted that certain religions
should have limits placed on their right to freedom of religion. He
obtained his law degree with a thesis on this subject and contributed to
a book on the Scientology religion in which he claimed that legislation
was needed to deal with it.
Ursula Caberta is a former member of the Hamburg Parliment. She
promoted the exclusion of Scientologists from her political party, making
nation media on this and on other propaganda lines that she spread about
Scientologists.
There are more Germ-mans: Thomas Gandow, Stefan Weissflog, Hinrich
Westphal all priest who have fought against minority religions. I
wonder why?
Your Germ-man Constitution in Article 1 speaks, The dignity of man
is inviolable. The government is obliged to respect and protect it.
The German people, therefore, profess to inviolable and inalienable human
rights as the basis of any human community, peace and justice in the
world. The following basic rights are binding on the legislative,
executive and judicial branches, being basic law. All people are equal
before the law. Men and women have equal rights. No one may have
disadvantages or advantages because of his sex, heritage, race, language,
birthplace, faith, religious or political views.
Your Germ-man Criminal Code: incitement of the People. He who
attacks the human rights of others in a way which distrubs the public
peace, by: inciting hatred against segments of the population, calling
upon people to take part in violent or arbitary measures against them; or
insulting, intentionally libeling or slandering them, is to be sentence
to imprisionment of three months to five years.
In conclusion Tilman, you have seen the facts about how your nation
is attacking Scientology in a similar manner they attacked the Jewish
people before they were freed by WWII.
You also, now realized that all of the people involved in this
attempt are doing so for their own gain.
You also realize that your government protects everyone regardless
of their religious beliefs. Their constitution being similar to the Bill
of Rights as well as The Scientology Creed.
Peace
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Historical Note
From: mikesmith3@aol.com
Date: 19 Nov 1996 07:17:40 GMT
--------
Herr Hausherr,
The war ended in 1945.
You lost.
You can stop fighting now.
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Photographic distortion
From: tilman@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:22:53 GMT
--------
In <19961118012500.UAA17684@ladder01.news.aol.com>, mikesmith3@aol.com
wrote:
(nothing relevant)
"MikeSmith3":
Don't send me e-mail. While I have no problem with friendly
scientologists discussing with me (there are a few and their e-mail is
secure), *your* e-mail is not welcome and will not be tolerated.
Word-clear and clay-demo the AOL users guide and learn the difference
between a follow-up and an e-mail.
Tilman
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Photographic distortion
From: mikesmith3@aol.com
Date: 19 Nov 1996 07:54:45 GMT
--------
Re: Photographic distortion
On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:22:53 GMT, tilman@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr)
wrote:
from:
DER FATHERLAND
re:
EDICT FROM GRAND DRAGON
to:
>"MikeSmith3":
>
>Don't send me e-mail.
>... *your* e-mail is not welcome and will not be tolerated.
>Tilman Hausherr
Or what? I get a visit from your old Uncle Gestapo?
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Excuse Tilman
From: mikesmith3@aol.com (MikeSmith3)
Date: 7 Apr 1997 03:34:26 GMT
--------
Tilman has been doing the practice section of "Old Uncle Gestapo's"
disinformation class. However he skipped instructions about posting
to alt.test first. Apparently this was caught by his mentor after the
fact.
I received an e-mail from Old Uncle Gestapo asking me to overlook
his pupil's miscue.
>Subj: My Nephew Tilman
>Date: 97-04-04 07:00:59 GMT
>From: OUGestapo@Reich3.de (Old Uncle Gestapo)
>To: mikesmith3@aol.com (MikeSmith3)
>Message-ID: <TilmAnisnotanaZi666@Reich3.de>
>Herr Schmidt:
>Nephew Tilly has been under my tutelage for some time now
>as you have discerned.
>He is usually a good boy (as you know he is fond of Teddy Bears).
>After all it was he who invented the TIFF-o-Matic.
>His recent postings to ars were to have been sent to alt.test. first.
>I instruct you to overlook this slight miscalculation. Any detraction of
him
>is verboten and will not be tolerated.
>Now that we have reached an understanding I must finish my
>correspondence with Minister Blum. My "S" stamp has run out
>of ink yet again.
>Uncle Gestapo
>ps Col. Klink was an idiot.
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: RonsAmigo starts hate forum on AOL
From: ronsamigo@aol.com (RonsAmigo)
Date: 5 Aug 1997 09:12:32 GMT
--------
Neil Woods wrote:
>You all know our good friend RonsAmigo...
>Well keeping in line with BlubbardTek(tm), he's started a folder >on AOL
designed
>to DA a whole country.
>Any information that outlines $cieno excesses in Germany would >be
appreciated.
>Tilman, can you still sign onto AOL?
Tilman's presence in this forum would be appreciated.
Maybe he could explain his "Jew Hunter" on the WEB
activities... oops... make that "Clam Slueth." Maybe he
can explain why the company he works for pays him to
spend such a large percentage of his time furthering the
New Nazi cause. Maybe I can post something there that
will cause him to put on a great tap dancing exhibition re:
what he really does for a living.
Come on down Tilman! I would love to have you participate
in our discussions re: German Religious Persecution. As
one of the foremost promoters of the the New Nazi cause
(at least on-line) you certainly qualify as an expert witness,
and you are so blinded by your own bigotry that with
every post you will demonstrate for all the New Nazi
mentality.
And for those of you concerned that I have broken
"Godwin's law" let me say this: The hell with you and
with Godwin. The label, "New Nazi" is very appropriate
in that it accurately describes a class of BEHAVIOR.
And to their credit, the New Nazis are equal
opportunity bigots. You no longer have to be German
to be a Nazi. Look at Roland for instance. Read some of his
stuff if you aren't familiar with his work. There's a New
Nazi if I ever saw one.
How many of you ARS Scientology "critics" can honestly
say that you haven't noticed the Nazi-like qualities of
some in your ranks? Are their ANY of you that can
honestly say that you haven't noticed both Roland's
and Tilman's not-so-latent Nazi tendencies? Be honest
now. Hell, it's time to weed out and disown the New Nazis
and nut cases in your ranks anyway. Perhaps ARS
could even regain some of its long gone credibility
amoung the net-folk if you were to do so. Could name a
couple other obvious candidates for the label "New Nazi",
but wont. Maybe one of you will have the guts to do so. (but I doubt it)
Amigo
Go ahead low life slime with no imagination or originality.
Take the cheap shot I've left you that you're now thinking
is such a bright idea..
========
From: qwerty08@aol.com-nospam (Qwerty 08)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Kirstie Alley on Roseanne March 3
Date: 1 Mar 1999 05:42:06 GMT
--------
> WEDNESDAY, MARCH 3
> Roseanne takes the show to the set of "Veronica's Closet" to sit
> down with cast members Kirstie Alley, Kathy Najimy, Wallace
> Langham, Daryl Mitchell, and Ron Silver.
Your obsession with Scientology celebrities is fascinating. I guess the
neo-nazis have gotten bored with the Jews.
========
From: qwerty08@aol.com-nospam (Qwerty 08)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Best of "Ask Terminator Tilman"
Date: 2 Mar 1999 06:22:18 GMT
--------
>On 1 Mar 1999 05:34:36 GMT, qwerty08@aol.com-nospam (Qwerty 08) wrote:
>
>> Oh! I see. So that's the kind of entertainment you enjoy!
>> No wonder you defend a nazi.
>
>Querty08: if you were standing in a street in Germany, face to face
>with Tilman, would you call him a Nazi then?
Based on what I have read of Tilman's posts and his website I'd say I'd have no
problem.
That is of course, as long as he wasn't armed and was not surrounded by any of
the Hitler Youth, oops, I mean the Christian Democratic Party Youth Wing (or
whatever it's called). As I said I've read his posts and I know what little
respect he has for the rights of other.
Legal Disclaimer
In case this isn't already obvious - all messages on this page are libellous, and I do of course distance myself from them. These are not my opinions - these are hate messages from Scientologists, shown here to expose their methods.