======== Newsgroups: alt.magic.secrets,alt.magic Subject: alt.magic.secrets original official FAQ From: Tilman Hausherr Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 23:00:49 +0200 -------- This is my FAQ attempt for alt.magic.secrets, the place on the usenet to discuss magic secrets. alt.magic is *not* the place for this. This FAQ is also posted to alt.magic to inform the newbies where the secrets are discussed. Note that follow-ups go to alt.magic.secrets only. 0. Does this FAQ explain any magic tricks ? no. But a few links are available on my home page at http://home.snafu.de/tilman/magic.html 0a. How do I make flash paper? You don't. Flash paper looks like paper and flares up with no residue. Obviously, it is a fire hazard, and so is its production. You could as well ask "how do I do nitroglycerine". To emphasise the dangers, here explanations how to handle the paper you buy. From Walter Unsworth : Flash paper is sold damped with distilled water and that is the safe way to store it. Normally also comes in a easy seal bag, leave it in the bag till use. Damp = Safe Dry = NOT! From Tom Gray : Use only one sheet at a time. Drying usually takes 24 hours. Be also aware that if you drop a burning piece anywhere near your exposed source of several sheets the *entire* group will ignite and you will burn yourself, maybe seriously. Store the paper in something like a wallet or tin box. 1. Who created alt.magic.secrets ? check out ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/control/alt/alt.magic.secrets. 2. Who proposed alt.magic.secrets ? Herbert L. Becker, although another guy said it was his idea. 3. Who supported alt.magic.secrets, who opposed it ? Magicians opposed it very strongly, because it would hurt their business. The proposal got support from people who like to find out magic secrets (including me), but also from people who don't like suppression of information. About 3/4 (rough guess) of the posters in alt.config opposed the creation of the group. 4. What is alt.magic.secrets for ? Revealing magic secrets, discussing ways to find out magic tricks, discussing the methods of "psychic" frauds (e.g. Uri Geller, Sai Baba) reviews of commercial tricks, just about everything that is unwanted on alt.magic. Flame wars like "you shouldn't post secrets" are unwanted and should not be answered. 5. What is alt.magic.secrets not for ? Everything that is unrelated to discussing actual magic secrets, everything that is on-topic on alt.magic, spam, make money fast, "magicK", "magic the gathering", and everything that is unrelated to magic. Examples for off-topic posts: - help with performing ("my hands are too small") - help finding what to perform ("need new ideas") - sales of illusions without telling the secret - discussion of who is the best magician ("I am the best") - help where to buy an illusion ("need address of magic shop") - discussing audience influence ("what is the best trick") - whining ("you shouldn't reveal secrets") 6. Who should not read alt.magic.secrets ? a) People who enjoy magic performance and don't want to know how it is done. It is also advised not to read explanations of tricks you haven't seen yet, because it would ruin the effect. b) People who have bought magic secrets and now believe that they are better people and part of some exclusive society. Such people might easily be offended. 7. Does exposure of secrets hurt magicians ? No, but it does annoy them, since they have to learn new tricks, instead of just perform a trick from another magician. It is also annoying to them because they suddenly feel naked, especially if they don't have a good performance. They also dislike that people see magic as a sort of guess-how game, although David Copperfield said in an interview that such people are welcome, since they are regular paying guests. Other unhappy people are wannabe magicians who have been ripped off by those countless "self-working, angle-proof" illusions that are sometimes nothing more than one playing card and poorly xeroxed instructions. Such people would like you to be ripped off, too. A financial impact of exposure has yet to be proven - I am writing this line after six years of existance of this newsgroup, and after the "masked magician" shows. There has been no report about a financial impact. 7a. Aren't magic illusions trade secrets? No. A "trade secret" requires that the secret is well-protected and delivers an economic advantage to the owner. While magic illusions do have a "secret", this secret is sold to anyone without any non-disclosure agreements. Another problem is that these "secrets" can be "decrypted" easily by other magicians or by lay people with a VCR. 7b. Aren't magic illusions copyrighted? The *instructions* are copyrighted. It means if you post the instructions of a magic illusion on the net, you're in trouble. However, copyrights do not protect ideas, they protect only the expression of an idea. So you can make your own, personal description of an illusion without risk. 7c. Aren't magic illusions patented? Yes, some are. A patent protects a technical idea or a design. However it is not secret, and the patent files lose their copyright because they are a public record. The patent prevents other manufacturers from producing the same product. Very few magicians file for a patent, because 1. Many illusions are not really new 2. Many illusions are just stolen ideas from others 3. Patent law is expensive. Here some illusions that are patented: http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05354238__ John Gaughan, possibly the "flying" patent http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=USD0345595__ Jim Steinmeyer's Origami, but only the ornamental design http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04244566__ An "S"-type levitation here, by Gale Molovinsky http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05392161__ Illusion assembly creating a see through effect http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05605508__ Magicians' Guillotine apparatus http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04023794__ Optical illusion device for concealing an object, animal or the like to be produced, and yes, it is done with a mirror :) http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04984782__ Magic card http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05790013__ Color changing light bulbs http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US03602498__ Illusion using filmed and live action http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US03612516__ Illusion of person appearing in an empty cabinet http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05528562__ Mimic watch http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05551921__ Coin pierced with key http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US03822879__ http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05549515__ http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05558583__ More coin magic (yawn!) http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US03997156__ Magic hat http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04570924__ Levitation and animation of a miniature light source http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US03632108__ Base that uses mirrors to conceal hidden person http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04273418__ Optical illusion through rotating disc having alternating transparent and reflective areas according to a predetermined pattern http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04094501__ illusion of "girl in fishbowl" http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04068841__ Illusion apparatus that has everything plus a cup holder. http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05409420__ Spectator failure trick involving suspension illusion with magnets http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05528425__ Optical illusion through projection http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05685625__ Optical illusion through projection http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05255452__ Anti-gravity boots http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05886956__ Illusion of a levitating card floating in the air with Pendulum "proving" this. Patent hard to understand at first. Read pages 3 and 7 and understand that the slit is NOT actually hidden by the object! http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04557476__ Cigarette case jugglery device http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04339120__ Ball changing color as it travels through a cylinder http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04095783__ Disappearing die http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05449324__ Illusion of stick-like thing being cut off; shown on page 7 and explained on page 9. http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04552355__ Penetration through wall http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04565364__ Card zig-zag illusion http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05536209__ Cutting-magic device http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=USRE035556__ Teleporter http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05456636__ Card slashing device http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04013286__ Card box to popup chosen card(s) http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04976647__ Drawing board on which drawn face comes to life http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04824097__ Live puppet-on-the-arm illusion 8. What is a "troll" ? A fake but very convincing message, like - description of a performance that never happened - wrong explanation of a trick ("DC flies with magnets") Trolling is part of the USENET, and will surely happen a lot in alt.magic.secrets. The best solution is not to believe anything, except if a post contains real "proof", i.e. something that exposes a trick. People who have posted troll messages in the past: - ian@rowlan.demon.co.uk (Ian Rowland) - edlopez@ezonline.com (Ed Lopez) - Robin Allen - Frank-S@msn.com (Frank ) (posted his troll as a question) - Ray Haddad (insists that he created the newsgroup, LOL!) - "Eric H." (posts his troll msgs as a FAQ) More infos on trolls from an excerpt from the deposition of Keith Henson in the case RTC vs. Keith Henson: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/hk/hkhenson/deposition.transcript 07 Q (By Mr. Lieberman) And what's a troll, sir? 08 A (Keith Henson) Oh, it comes from the fishing where you troll a 09 bait along in the water and a fish will jump and bite 10 the thing, and the idea of it is that the internet is 11 a very humorous place and it's especially good to 12 troll people who don't have any sense of humor at all, 13 and this is a troll because an ftp site of 127.0.0.1 14 doesn't go anywhere. It loops right back around into 15 your own machine. 16 Q So the idea here was to make the church [RTC] think 17 that this person had an ftp site and to take action 18 against him and, in fact, he didn't have it; is that 19 your point? 20 A Oh, it's really humorous, and I picked up on it 21 and instantly -- instantly added something to extend 22 the troll. Extending the trolls like this is an art 23 form of the highest order. Another example of a troll was mentioned in "Chronicles of Higher Education" on 18.8.2000: But others [trolls] are deliciously clever. For example, in response to a discussion of the mystical and mathematical importance of ratios in the Great Pyramid of Cheops, John Baez posted a note that the ancient Greeks, too, were very sophisticated: If you take the ratio of the circumference to the radius of the columns they built, he wrote, you get an excellent approximation of pi. Gullible readers, not realizing that Baez was a mathematics professor with a sense of humor, protested that this was true of any circle. "That's what makes it so spooky," Baez cryptically replied, adding to the confusion. 9. How do I know if a "real" secret is posted ? You'll have to check it yourself, by seeing the performance on video. Magicians will say "it's wrong", even if it is right. Sometimes this is not even a lie, because exposure of secrets is not the same as teaching someone how to do the trick. They might also say "you're right" when you are completely wrong. This is "usenet misdirection". (This came from Xcott Craver, who meant another thing with the expression: referring people to hang out in alt.magic.secrets rather than alt.magic) 10. Who is Herbert L. Becker (HLB) ? A magician who has written the book "All the secrets of magic revealed", and got into legal problems with it, and as a result, DC was "allowed" by the publisher to rewrite the book. Magicians were angry because his book was aimed at the general public instead of the people who hang out in magic shops hoping to buy a trick that really is "self-working", "amazing", "easy" and other features that would get a manufacturer in court if this would be an ordinary business. 11. Who is Tilman Hausherr ? Basically a sicko from the land of Kraut, who feels an urge to get behind every magic trick that he sees on TV. "Bob" says: "Are you abnormal ? Then you are probably *better* than most people !". Read why this guy is sick at http://home.snafu.de/tilman/sicko.txt He wrote a document in german detailing many "big" illusions, that was previously available only in CompuServe, but is now also available at http://home.snafu.de/tilman/#zauber Tilman became angry because magicians love to spread lies like "it's available in any library" or "you can get it on cereal boxes". Most big tricks are available only in magic shops, and he doubts that you will get the real thing right away, instead you'll going away with silly silk/coin/sponge ball tricks. 12. Is Tilman affiliated with HLB ? No. He even has some disagreements with HLB: - Orient Express is not a camera trick - "Flying" is not a stupid illusion - The explanation "walking thru a brick wall from his book" has nothing to do with DC's china wall illusion 13. Does Tilman like HLB ? Yes. Thanks to him, Tilman gets flamed less because magicians concentrate their hate on HLB. 14. Why does Tilman speak of himself in the 3rd person in this FAQ ? For morons that didn't see that Tilman wrote this FAQ himself. 15. What's the best news reader ? FreeAgent 1.5 for free or Agent 1.8 for $29. The later has killfile ability. 16. Are posts from alt.magic.secrets archived anywhere ? Tilman keeps a few posts on his computer. Originally he claimed he would put them on the WWW but he hasn't done it. The reason is that his archive grows and grows, and he would have to constantly update everything. You can also search at http://groups.google.com . Some secrets are also explained on the WWW. Try searching for appropriate words on http://google.com 17. I think Tilman is cool. Should I e-mail him with my questions ? Don't. Leave him alone. He's always busy. Please ask publicly. If you're shy, learn to post anonymously. And try to search on www.deja.com first. The advantage of asking publicly is that you might get more than one answer - no one says that his answers are correct. He has got things wrong in the past, he might have things wrong now, he might have things wrong in the future. (But he hopes he has most things right :-)) He's very happy when other people join the discussion and find flaws in theories posted here. And please, use meaningful subject lines. The following are not meaningful subject lines: "I want to know that secret" "Copperfield" "Question" "Stupid question" "Magic!" "How did he do that?" "What was that trick????????" Meaningful subject lines are: "pen through $ bill" "vertical sawing 1/2" "torn and restored card" 18. I hate this Tilman guy. Should I e-mail him my opinion ? Don't. Leave him alone. He's always busy. Just imagine him as a nerd who has no life and hangs around the internet pissing off everyone. That should bring you some relief, so you don't have to e-mail him anymore. Besides, he doesn't answer this kind of e-mail anyway, or just posts a standard response like "don't read alt.magic.secrets if you don't like it". 19. Any cool books ? "Big secrets" by William Poundstone, QUILL 1983, ISBN 0-688-04830-7. Exposes Uri Geller and how-to-saw-a-lady-in-half. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0688048307/thexenubookstore "Bigger secrets", by William Poundstone, Houghton Mifflin 1986, ISBN 0-395-53008-3. Exposes Anhony Robbins, levitating lady, newspaper precognition, zig-zag-girl, DC's vanishing of the statue of liberty, 3 card monte scam, Scientology "Xenu" scam. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0395530083/thexenubookstore "Biggest secrets", by William Poundstone, QUILL 1993, ISBN 0-688-13792-X. Exposes Houdini's escapes, vanishing elefant, metamorphosis, etc. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=068813792X/thexenubookstore "Flim Flam!", by James Randi, Prometheus Books 1982, ISBN 0-87975-198-3. The basic reading of every skeptic. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0879751983/thexenubookstore (If you buy through these links, a certain amount goes to "The Xenu fund" which will fund activities against the scientology cult. The price stays the same) German readers should buy the two books by Robert Rau: Copperfield & co Die besten Tricks der großen Zauberer http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3426773015/religio Houdini, Moretti & Co. Die besten Tricks der großen Sensationsdarsteller http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3426774291/religio (If you buy through these links, a certain amount goes to support the http://www.religio.de website, which informs the public about cults. The price stays the same) 20. Is there a mailing list for magicians ? Yes, it's called the "electronic grymoire" or the "magic digest" or whatever. E-mail to magic-request@maillist.crd.ge.com. You have to be a magician or have a damn good story pretending to. 21. Who are Tilman's favorite magicians ? David Copperfield (a perfectionist) Penn & Teller (two nasty guys) Rudy Coby (funny) Christopher Brougthon (has some cute ideas) 22. Who are Tilman's worst magicians ? Siegfried & Roy (light and sound and tigers) Wittus Witt (arrogant I-know-all-and-I-teach-you) Dean Gunnarson (as surprising as a porn movie) Hans Moretti (same remark) The magic orwellis (just 'investors' with no talent) 23. What is DC's address ? According to jpoulter@islandnet.com (Jack Poulter), this is it: David Copperfield # 300 - 515 Post Oak Blvd Houston TX 77027 USA According to selsyn@midwest.net (Andy Shofstall), this is also it: David Copperfield 2181 Broadway Los Angeles CA 90068 USA In all letters include a S.A.S.E. 24. What is Melinda's address ? (I am including that one because I like Melinda's "misdirection") From: nagingdb@aol.com (Naging db) Melinda is with the Lobeline Communications Agency 8995 Elevado Avenue Los Angeles CA 90069 USA Fon (310) 271-1551 Fax -4822 25. What are typical answers of "ethical" magicians on this newsgroup? (From: Al Bundy ) Q: How is _____ done?, What is _____? How does DC do _____ ? A1: Magicians NEVER reveal secrets. A2: Go to a Library. A3: They use magnets and mirrors. A4: Go buy it. A5: If you are a real magician, you should know. A6: Go buy the book. 26. What does *plonk* mean? Many "ethical magicians" find this word in follow up, usually after posts "you shouldn't reveal secrets". But what does it mean? by jwleblanc@my-dejanews.com: "plonk" is USENETese for "I have carefully placed you in my newsreader's killfile so that any message you post in this newsgroup until I remove you will go completely unnoticed by me. I have done this because I think either you are an idiot, a moron, or you annoy me in some way, and I have absolutely no inclination whatsoever to read your words, however clever they may eventually become. Have a lovely day, and play nice with the other plonks."